By Amy M.
I have worked full-time outside the home since my son was 4-months-old and never doubted my decision, so I am always interested in hearing from other moms in similar situations. However, it was the author of The Joys of Much Too Much—Bonnie Fuller—who enticed my interest before I even knew what her book was about. As an avid women’s magazine reader, I was familiar with Fuller’s work and excited about the opportunity to speak with her. And she didn’t disappoint—she was as candid in our conversation as she is in her book, even though the interview took place at 9 p.m., while she was on her way home from a long day at the office.
In her aptly titled first book, the magazine editor and mother of four shares her secret to happiness: forget trying to find balance in your life and instead strive for one that is “maxed out with a career, romance and family.” The former editor of magazines such as Glamour and Us Weekly and current editorial director of American Media (publisher of the celebrity newsweekly Star) claims that we CAN have it all and tells us how, using tips and anecdotes from her own life. Known professionally for her myriad accomplishments in the magazine industry, she is also a devoted wife and mother who has had her share of personal struggles, including dealing with the serious illnesses of two of her children.
Amy: You’ve worked hard to get where you are, and there were some bumps in the road. At what point did you personally realize “the joys of much too much”?
Bonnie: I realized it with my first son, at age 30. I was really surprised by the pregnancy. I knew I really wanted kids, but I hadn’t planned on starting a family yet. I thought we would wait. But it was a really good thing that it happened, because I was someone who probably would have put it off. I loved my job so much. I was editor-in-chief of Flare [Canadian fashion magazine], and I never expected to have that job at that point. I never expected to have that job, period, being editor-in-chief of a magazine. But then I had my son, and it was a complete and utter revelation to me how incredible you could feel about your child. I had a career I loved, and realized I loved having a family, too. That’s when it dawned on me, that it was the best of both possible worlds, to have both.
Amy: From the time you were in college, you have managed to overcome your inner fears and “go for it” in all aspects of your life. But the fact is there are many women who would be afraid to do that, for many different reasons. They may even be afraid to send a simple email to someone who could serve as a professional contact. How can these women really break out of their shells?
Bonnie: You really have to be your own inner cheerleader. You have to start telling yourself that you’re great, you can do it, that you can accomplish your dreams. You have to work at convincing yourself first, because you have to give yourself confidence. And you have to realize only you can be your best supporter and cheerleader.
Something else you can do is tell your mother, or your boyfriend, or your best friend that you really need them to also be supportive and tell you positive things. It’s almost like you have to brainwash yourself, and when you hear it coming from yourself, and from your friends, it really does make a difference.
So first you have build up your courage, and then, start small. And then, assuming you have the training you need, look at the landscape out there, and figure out where you can start. It’s all hard, so you have to find the easiest—relatively speaking—place to start. For example, try to target a particular company, or a particular job within a company, where if you got your foot in the door, you could take the next step up. Start small and aim low to begin with, so you’re not giving yourself such a big hurdle that you feel it’s impossible to get over it.
Don’t bite off too much. If you get into the field you want in a lower-level job and you’re learning, and you see that you’re getting positive feedback, that should help build your confidence, so you can try to go to the next step. A lot of times, if you go after something you’re passionate about, and want to do well at, you learn a lot faster than you think you might, and you can also move up a lot faster than you initially think you will. If it’s the right field for you, then you’ll be comfortable once you’re in it.
Amy: You encourage women to find their passion and pursue it, but some women may feel so overwhelmed that they no longer know what their passion is. How do we find (or rediscover) it—especially when we have to contend with child care issues, lack of money, etc.?
Bonnie: First of all, if you’ve trained for something, you have to decide if you want to go back to it. If not, then you just have to think about what you like doing. What parts of the day do you like best? What do you like to read about? What do you like to watch, to listen to, to do? What hobbies do you have? Because really, you want to have your career in something you love to do. So if you’re the one who really likes organizing other moms for playdates and special activities, you have to think how you can reuse those skills in a professional way. You just need to brainstorm about how you can apply your skills and the things you like to do at home in a different way.
Amy: In your book you mention some of the factors that cause women to “settle,” whether it be in their professional or personal lives. And you are definitely an extraordinary role model for any woman who felt she had to “settle.” But sometimes there are external factors we really cannot overcome—for example, we have to pay the mortgage so we have to stay in a job where the work environment is not ideal. How can you manage to lead the filled-to-the-brim yet extremely rewarding life when there are certain elements and negative influences you can’t control?
Bonnie: Most people have to settle at some point. Maybe you’ve gotten bored in your job, or you have a new boss you don’t get along with. I think that happens to everyone at some point in their careers. Sometimes you do have to tough it out for awhile—I think that’s very common, and you shouldn’t feel terrible about it, because it’s life. However, if it becomes clear the situation is not going to change and that you really need to find another job, then you start quietly, discreetly looking around. Start networking with people at conferences and lunches. Try to meet people who might know about other opportunities. Look at job listings online. You can’t stay forever if you’re unhappy, because it can lead you to depression. You need to decide for yourself when the situation becomes unbearable. And sometimes just taking some steps to find a new position makes you feel better, because in your mind you’ve made the decision that you’re going to find something else. It could take a long time, but at least you’re moving in the right direction. Unfortunately a new job won’t just present itself. You have to do what you can from your end and eventually you’ll find another job. These things don’t happen on your timetable.
Amy: Because of your own experiences, in your book you focus on finding/establishing a supportive atmosphere at the office. However, there are many women who would love to work from home and have jobs that could feasibly be done from home. As someone who has supervised many employees, how do you recommend women broach this subject with their boss?
Bonnie: You have to approach your boss with a plan. Approach it really positively. Don’t just go into your boss’s office and say you’ve decided to work from home. Show that you’ve given it a lot of thought and figured out how it can work for the company, not disrupt the boss’s needs, and still work for you. Have a proposal of the duties you can do from home, who you can coordinate with at the office, who can supervise you, how often you will come in to the office. You really need to have a thought-out plan. And then you should offer to try it out, maybe for a month, and if it’s not working for your boss, you’ll be willing to reconsider. You’re not giving an ultimatum—you never want to do that to your boss. You want to go in and be cooperative, positive, willing to reconsider if working from home doesn’t work out.
Amy: You urge working mothers to not let negative comments regarding work versus family bother them. But the fact is the “mommy wars” are alive and well, with tons of criticism coming from all sides. Linda Hirshman caused quite a bit of turmoil earlier in the summer when she wrote that women who chose to leave the workforce after having children were not living up to their potential (link to article here). What is your reaction to Linda’s piece?
Bonnie: Well, I believe it’s a free world, we have free choice, so you have to make the decisions that are right for you. I may think that the road to the greatest happiness, and also to the most security, is to work, because I also feel it’s financially dangerous to depend on your husband and not have your own independent income. I may think that, but not every woman feels that way, and I think the great thing about life today is we do have choices, and we can choose what we feel is right for us. I believe the “joys of much too much” is going to work for a lot of women, but it’s not going to work for every woman. I’m not going to tell a woman who wants to stay home that it’s a bad decision. You have to make the decision for yourself. On the other hand, I want to encourage the women who feel like their friends, family and society are telling them they can’t do both, because they wouldn’t be perfect at both. I want to support those women, and say, hey, you don’t have to be perfect. You can do well at both things—your job and raising your kids. You’re going to do great and be happier if you do both—if that’s you want that.
Amy: What values do you try to instill in your children?
Bonnie: I want them to be thoughtful, considerate, truthful, to believe in themselves and be hardworking, and to know that things are not going to be given to them, they need to work hard for them. You’re not doing a good thing for your kids if you give them everything. You want them to appreciate the value of things and have to work for things. I think it’s important to instill in them a sense of purpose in life, and to teach them they need to work to achieve their dreams. That’s very important, because if you don’t give kids a sense of purpose, I don’t think they have a sense of direction in life. The worst legacy you could ever leave your kids is to make them feel like nothing in life is exciting, because they already have it all.
It’s exciting to see my kids embarking on their own journeys. That’s what makes me feel really good, because I know they’re going to have good lives. They know what they want, and they’re going after it and feel good about it. That’s something I think is really important, that makes me happiest.
Amy: What are you proudest of at the end of the day?
Bonnie: I’m most proud of my kids, that they’re growing up to be honest and hardworking, with a sense of purpose in life.
Secondly, I’m proud of the work I’ve been able to do. I feel really fortunate that I’ve been able to be in a field that I love, one that’s really creative, and that I’ve been able to make a difference by creating magazines that women enjoy reading. I’m proud of that.
Amy: How do you think the workplace has changed for women—especially mothers—throughout your career?
Bonnie: I think the workplace is definitely more flexible and accommodating. There are more women having babies, being moms, continuing their careers. It’s really changed a lot. When I was starting out, nobody thought of being able to work from home. You would hear about a lot of women working after one child, but not if they had two or three. There were a lot fewer women going back to work than there are now.
In the workplace now it’s much more acceptable for women to work and have kids, and to bring their kids in the office sometimes, and to figure out different arrangements for child care. Women are in such demand in certain areas—like in women’s magazines, where there is a particular demand for senior editors. Many editors at women’s magazines are having kids, and they have been able to work out different arrangements so they can care for their kids. There have been so many accommodations made. That may not happen in every single field, but it is happening more in some fields. Women become very valued workers, and their companies really appreciate it and are willing to make accommodations. The more valuable you become in your organization, the more accommodations will be made for you. Becoming more senior gives you more of an ability to dictate—when you need to—how you’re going to make accommodations for your own family. I think it’s worthwhile to take on more responsibility and move up, because it enables you to have more control.
Amy: Is there anything else you want to share?
Bonnie: I really feel that most women have some passions, and you’ll be happiest if you find a way to express those passions, and have your family too—your other passion. Also, the thing is, you still have a long life after your kids are grown, so you need something to stimulate you and make you excited about your life. So if you’ve decided not to pursue a career while your kids are young, you can still do it after your kids are grown. You can go back to school, or find a job, but it should be a job you’ll really care about and be excited about—not something to just occupy your time. It’s never too late. People don’t retire at age 65 today. You shouldn’t forget that there’s a second act, or a third act in life. You’re still combining motherhood with a career. You’re still a mom, even if your kids are older.
The Joys of Much Too Much was provided free to DotMoms for review and is available at amazon.com. This interview took place via a recorded phone conversation and has been edited for space and clarity.
Amy M. lives in Pennsylvania with her son and her husband. She works full time as a writer/editor for a large university.
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